Marriage & Money [PODCAST]

Marriage & Money

[00:00:00] Hello, this is the Catholic money mastermind podcast. The show where we explore the intersection of our faith and finances, you can learn more about our organization and find show [email protected]. And please note that nothing in this episode should be construed as investment tax.

Or legal advice here is marriage and money.

Deb Meyer: All right. Detmire here with the Catholic money mastermind podcast. I'm your host today and I'm joined by Tyler. Uh, we're going to talk about the topic of marriage and money. Um, this is a quite heated debate in some families and other families. It goes, you know, just smooth and, uh, easy, but we're here to, you know, help be a resource and guide.

We see either newlywed couples or couples who have been married awhile, just try to figure out what their money, uh, stories are and have better dialogue around monies. [00:01:00] Does it make sense to have everything is joint accounts? Do we think separate accounts make sense in some situations? Uh, some of the other topics that we'll be diving into this episode would be just around best practices for your communication in marriage.

So, uh, Tyler, go ahead and give us a little bit of intro. Uh, tell us a little bit more about yourself, where you're from is located, uh, how long you've been married. If you have any kind of specialty in the clients that you serve.

Tyler Hackenberg: Yes. So I am from just north of Philadelphia. I'm actually a convert to the Catholic phase, came into the church in 2019, and I've been married since 2017. Um, in 2018, my wife and I, we adopted our son. So we have a two year old and a half year old now. Um, so my firm is actually located in Exton, Pennsylvania.

Um, we really like to help out anybody. We're not, um, very niched [00:02:00] yet, but we're working on, um, retirees and stuff like that. Income planning and stuff like that. So,

Deb Meyer: Okay. Okay, great. So what's your firm name? Tyler.

Tyler Hackenberg: Our firm name is wealth management solutions

Deb Meyer: Nice. Okay. Okay. And you're part of a larger team or.

Tyler Hackenberg: by larger. You mean one other advisor? Yes.

Deb Meyer: Yeah, it's funny in the, uh, investment advisory world and financial planning, uh, you know, solo advisors like myself, or like, okay. If you have one other person that works with you, you have a team, right? Uh, anyway. Yeah,

Tyler Hackenberg: And I used to work at Vanguard, so it was a big, um, switch down to, uh, incise. So,

Deb Meyer: Yeah, it was definitely, but I'm sure you get to get, you know, get to know your clients a lot better that way, too.

Tyler Hackenberg: absolutely. Yep.

Deb Meyer: Cool. Well, uh, like I said, my name's Deb Meyer. I am the founder and CEO of worthy nest, which is a financial planning and investment [00:03:00] advisory practice based, um, currently in Punta Gorda, Florida.

Although I, uh, started my practice back in St. Louis, we relocated to FinTech back in. January of 2020 right before COVID hit. Uh, so I, I'm still not ready to call myself a flirty again because I haven't been here too long, but, uh, definitely, uh, St. Louis in it hard and, uh, spent basically any time for my college years up until, um, 2019 in St.

Louis. Um, my sister specialty is actually working with, uh, Catholic and Christian parents who want to build wealth. Yeah. Really do it in alignment with their values. So I've put a very strong emphasis on incorporating faith into the financial planning practice. And I am actually celebrating my 40th wedding anniversary today on the data.

So yeah, my husband, Brian and I, um, we got married in 2007 and, um, [00:04:00] yeah, it was. It's just, it seems like just yesterday, but I realized, gosh, a lot of stuff that we have three wonderful boys and, um, yeah, they range in age from 11 to six. So I've been a been around the block for awhile, but I definitely can't take credit.

Like, you know, some of those couples that you hear about that have been married 35, 40 years. It's awesome to, to work with those kinds of clients too. That's another, uh, anyway, we'll die into the topic for today. So, uh, joint versus separate accounts. Tyler, why don't you tell us a little bit about your position on that?

Do you think joint accounts are always the way to go once you're married or do you think some separate accounts can have, um, a good place as well?

Tyler Hackenberg: Yeah.

So I'm firmly in the camp of. Joint is probably better. I would say most situations, joint accounts are better just because, uh, if you look at scripture, the two will become one flesh that all [00:05:00] a joining of do. Different individuals into one bank accounts are part of that. So that's why I fall firmly into join.

It also protects both, um, husband and wife to have that joint account. So then everyone can know what's going on. It helps prevent, um, keeps things in the light instead of hiding money and stuff like that.

Deb Meyer: Yeah, I ha I have to agree with you. I think with joint accounts, you definitely have that sense of coming together. You know, you have these two separate individuals who haven't known each other all that long before they're entering into the sacrament of marriage. But once you're saying those valves, I mean, it's really.

The in sickness and in health till death do us part, like I take those seriously as a Catholic and I think most of us do. So the idea of being able to join together, not just from a spiritual, um, physical dimension, but also join together in how we're [00:06:00] approaching finances. It becomes really important throughout your long-term marriage.

Um, With the separate accounts. I think you touched on this a little bit, but yeah, there can be a level of secretiveness, right? There's a sense of, okay. Well, if I have this account over here, that my spouse doesn't know about, I can go and spend frivolously on things that he or she. Might not approve of.

And, um, I've, I've seen some examples of couples getting into credit card debt or having some of these outside addictions, maybe it's gambling, whatever it is, where the separate accounts are really more of a disguise for what some underlying issue might be in, in their world. And, you know, as a spouse, it's really important to support.

Your other spouse, see what you want to be, um, helping them become the best version of themselves. And it's hard to do that when there is secrecy in the marriage, in the form of, of separate accounts. Um, [00:07:00] I think you touched on this as well, but just, uh, some of the other negatives of having maybe some level of mistrust, not being able to confidently share what some of your experiences are with spending.

Um, and then even it could signify, you know, some disinterest in the relationship itself. When you're coming together as a married couple, you want to be engaged. You want to have that open communication and dialogue, and that can be discouraging. It. To a certain degree. What do you think are those some examples of times where it might make sense to have separate accounts or some of the positive elements of it?

Uh, even if it's just setting aside a small amount to say like a hundred dollars a person, uh, just to have available for some special occasion

Tyler Hackenberg: Yes.

Deb Meyer: any situation there.

Tyler Hackenberg: Yeah. So I'm actually a fan of having like very small sub-accounts. So like each, each member of the couple has like, [00:08:00] um, an account where they can just a little bit of money goes in that they can spend, especially during Christmas time. Because if you're both looking at it, you can see, huh, there's this bill for something.

And, Hmm. I wonder what that is. Of course granted nowadays, a lot of things come from Amazon, so it's still kind of secretive, but, um, but Yeah.

so it, it does allow you to have a little bit of a surprise and spontaneity, but also, um, the larger amount being in that joint account.

Deb Meyer: Yeah, I, I think of, uh, just an example myself, because I monitor the money, you know, on a pretty regular basis. And I have different alerts set up on our credit cards. If there's a. Charge or whatever that's made online. I'll get a notification sent to my email about it. And, um, it can be, you know, kind of nice being like, oh, okay.

I think my husband might've ordered me some shoes for my birthday or whatever it is, but it's [00:09:00] also like, oh, well, okay. There's not really an element of surprise there around birthdays or anniversaries or whatever other holidays. So. Uh, yeah, I agree with you that it can sometimes be nice to have it in that respect, but again, not make it a focus where you're regularly contributing to these other accounts and always paying separate bills, uh, that can get really messy over time.

Right. Where you're, you know, like, okay, if you're trying to manage a budget as a family and, um, you have these larger, uh, separate accounts where yeah. $2,003,000 a month is rolling into on a regular basis. Then you have to really figure out, okay, which expenses are you covering? Which savings goals are you covering?

And it can get confusing. Do you agree?

Tyler Hackenberg: Yeah. So I think we consider that part of like financial clutter, because you have things in different locations that it's hard to keep track of things. Now, some couples may be [00:10:00] able to do that, but I know for myself, and it's very messy to have like, Okay.

you're paying the water, I'm paying the electric.

We put the money. I'll send you money for the mortgage or rent. It just gets extremely complicated. And, um, I'm sure with a lot of financial advice, simpler is probably almost, always a little bit better because you have that. If it's simple, you can look at it.

Deb Meyer: Mm. Yeah. I mean, um, even when we start working with a new client and they have, you know, individual Roth IRAs or traditional IRA accounts, and they're at all these different financial institutions that. Getting it cleared out and saying, okay, let's get one custodian, one place that all the accounts are held at.

It's liberating when they can finally be like, oh, okay. I know that everything is at fidelity or TD Ameritrade or whatever it is. Uh, it's just, it's a nice feeling to like say, okay, [00:11:00] if I need to take a look or something happens unexpectedly to the, the, uh, Spouse that normally manages the finances, then you're able to step in and really figure out where things stand.

Uh, whereas if you have all of these separate accounts and lots of different financial institutions, uh, it can, it can be a real, uh, tragedy if, if something unexpected happens health wise and, uh, that person who's normally kind of the financial, um, Not decision-maker, but you know, more responsible and in terms of monitoring and tracking, uh, it can be really difficult for that other spouse.

Who's not as engaged in that process to, to figure out where things are.

Tyler Hackenberg: Yeah, absolutely. And when it comes to, um, passing away, um, Um, that's one of the main things that if you have it simplified, it makes things easier on the spouse that is, um, left because you can, okay. I just have to call one or two [00:12:00] places instead of 10, which I've seen people have like 10 different accounts and I'm like, why it's

Deb Meyer: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it can, it can definitely get hard, especially from an estate planning perspective. Um, I guess one other positive though, to think of in the context of separate accounts would be, you know, just some freedom to make some of those purchases without necessarily getting permission. I'm thinking of perhaps a family where the husband.

Works and provides an income for the family. And the wife stays at home home with kids in that situation. You know, she's not earning any compensation for this really hard work at home, but she might, I want to have something of her own that she can be like, Hey, if I want to splurge and do a spa day with my girlfriends, I can do that without feeling like I have to ask permission for my husband for that.

You know, one day thing that I only do once every couple of months. Um, [00:13:00] so do, do you agree with that item too, of like having a little bit, especially if you're in a household where just one spouses is earning the income that you're able to have that other spouse feel like, okay, maybe they have their separate account just for some of their expenditures that they don't want to be asking permission.

Tyler Hackenberg: Yeah, absolutely. And that goes back to my initial point of having like those. Accounts, the small separate accounts. That's not part of the main family finances, but the individual, um, spending money as well. So, but yeah, I'm wanting to present an agreement, especially, so you're not feeling obligated. Oh, I feel bad about asking for like a spa day here's money that's already set aside and budgeted for that makes things easier for, uh, both spouses.

Deb Meyer: okay. Good. Um, All right now, let's think about it from a higher level. So I know [00:14:00] we make it fairly easy. We're fairly young in our marriages and relationships. I got married in my twenties. I presume you got married. Uh, you know, I, I'm not exactly sure who your age, but probably your late twenties or early thirties.

Um, For those couples that do get married later in life or for those couples who, for whatever reason are in a second marriage, uh, something like that. Does it make sense for those people to have larger separate accounts and maybe not join it all together? Especially if you have children from prior relationships, um, w where do you stand on that?

Tyler Hackenberg: Yeah.

And that that's one of the major areas where separate accounts do make sense, because especially for estate planning, there are additional children in play that you had prior to your current marriage. So having it be able to, okay, this is like the money that we. I had in my prior [00:15:00] life and now, um, and that's going to go to the kids there.

I do think that it would potentially make a little bit of sense to before have those accounts, but going forward, save into a join or type of account. Um, but I can definitely see where in this case, yeah. Having the separate accounts do make sense in some cases,

Deb Meyer: Yeah, we're also talking about not just, uh, you know, checking and savings accounts, but really some of the brokerage or investment accounts that have those long-term objectives, that's where the separate accounts can become more important. Especially if you're in that retirement stage where you do want to.

Think about passing on any, uh, assets to the next generation and if they're, um, family issues there where you want to make sure, okay. This, whatever came into the marriage financially, before we joined in marriage now, [00:16:00] understanding that there's some nuance there to what those children from that prior relationship might, um, be.

Uh, wanting or not even expecting, but just, uh, it would be a nice thing to carve out separately. Um, but as you said, once you're joined together yeah. In that second marriage, or, uh, if, if you were already used to, you know, handling all your finances on your own and you didn't get married until your forties and that situation again, you were in this kind of independent mindset and just suddenly shifted all into a joint vehicle.

It can be a little bit challenging. So. Um, understanding that there's nuances to, you know, whether it's a checking or savings account and that's separate from how you sometimes look at the, uh, brokerage or retirement accounts that are longer term savings vehicles. Right.

Tyler Hackenberg: Exactly. Yeah. And with again, I'm sure you agree with this. Um, and when, when it comes [00:17:00] to advice, there's no one size fits all. So like you have definitely could have cases that, um, yeah, it makes action. Just make sense to just lump it all together. Other times. It doesn't so. It's important nuance that it is.

Um, and again, it also could come down to a situation where, Hey, we start out with these separate accounts and work towards getting them, um, join down the road and it doesn't have to be all at once. Like ripping off a bandaid. You can do it gradually as well.

Deb Meyer: Yeah. I have one client that they're closer to retirement and they're in a second marriage situation and you know, the husband, he has just one adult son, no grandchildren on his side. And then she has three adult children and plenty of grandchildren. So it's just different situations there. And for him, you know, he came in with.

Sizable investment portfolio into their marriage. So in his [00:18:00] respect, he wants to make sure that his son is still benefiting. If he passed away that his new wife is also benefiting, but he also wants to make sure that his son is well taken care of as well. And, um, It really goes down to the personal situation.

And that's what we're here as financial advisors to really do is help talk through some of those situations and have those difficult discussions, because it can be an emotional topic.

Tyler Hackenberg: Yeah. I don't know what the exact cistus statistics are, but money is definitely a point of pain for a lot of relationships and the cause of many divorces. So getting on that same page either prior to marriage or right away, even if you haven't, it's not hopeless working with someone like a financial advisor can definitely help because you can bring to the open.

Things that are hiding. And with marriage it's really to [00:19:00] be open with one another. So it is definitely something that, um, definitely ones is in the open. There can be healing or even, Hey, we're moving, moving forward together. So.

Deb Meyer: Yeah. So do you have any best practices for Catholic married couples as they work towards having this unified presence and coming together in their, uh, life? Not only as a married couple, but really financially.

Tyler Hackenberg: So one of the biggest things is communicate. If you don't communicate, you. Talk about everything, but without the communication and open dialogue, it kind of, um, or in the long run. So.

Deb Meyer: Sure. Sure. Well, and you know, for a lot of people, too, that idea of communication can be. Uh, touchy, you know, you might have someone in the relationship who likes to at least again, I'm, I'm using my own life as an [00:20:00] example, but I'm more of a person. If something's bothering me or something's on my mind, I want to talk about it.

I want to get it out in the open. My husband is not confrontational. He would rather stuff it down, not talk about it, you know? And. It just learning how to engage him in a healthy way. When I, when something is bothering me that I do want to bring it up. And I actually, um, started doing quite a bit of reading around that.

Cause we were having some pretty strong tensions, uh, about two years ago. And, uh, I. Really eager to learn more and like, get my hands on anything that would help enhance that communication. And one of the things that, you know, it's so simple, but you didn't really think about, it was just this idea of starting the conversation with a compliment, right.

Starting with something that you appreciate about that, about your spouse and, uh, being able to. Look forward to something together, plan for something fun. And then perhaps bring up at the end of the [00:21:00] conversation, bring up some of the areas where you could both improve, right? Because I'm not perfect.

You're not perfect. We're all centers. And at the end of the day, we need to have, um, that open communication with our spouse to foster a deeper, more intimate relationship. And also again, help become a better version of ourselves. I, I do agree with you that communication is essential in that regard, especially if you have very different even money personalities, you know, naturally, uh, some of us were born to be more of the spenders.

Some are more inclined to save and others are more into the generous giving. Um, I first learned of that concept through this, uh, gentleman, Nathan Barry. He has an organization. Save share, spend, and it's all about teaching kids, financial literacy, but, um, One of the eye-opening things for me was just understanding.

Okay. Not every adult has that same money, [00:22:00] personality, I, as financial advisors, I think a lot of us are more natural savers. Right? We want to plan for the future. We want to put things away and perhaps. Person who takes on some of the financial responsibility in your household is also more of a natural saver, but for those that are more natural spenders or givers, they're going to have different objectives and different ways of viewing things.

So it's important to really explore what those differences look like and better understand why they've come from it from that perspective. And, you know, maybe see if there's a, uh, situation where. Uh, that person with one money personality can be, uh, helping bring that other person more into a middle ground.

Right.

Tyler Hackenberg: Yeah. And on both as iron sharpens iron. So, um, so if there's a spender, um, Typically like to have fun. And the saver likes to plan for the future by merging the two, Hey, [00:23:00] we can have fun now, but also say for our future. So coming together to have those conversations. Okay.

So what does this look like? How can we have fun now, but also save?

And that's definitely something that, um, is helpful in a marriage where you can have that parliamentarian is. Hey, we're each becoming better and meeting in the middle and, um, growing. Yeah.

Deb Meyer: Compromise. It's it's uh, a universal principle, regardless of whether you're talking about money or something else. Cool. And anything else, any closing thoughts as we wrap up this episode, Tyler.

Tyler Hackenberg: Um, no, just, uh, it's definitely a topic that is, um, Good to have and something that should definitely be talked about. I know if I've had this conversation prior to my marriage, it would have helped help the first couple of years be even better. So it's definitely something where Hey, having that [00:24:00] conversation is definitely important.

Deb Meyer: Yeah. I mean, for those that are preparing for marriage, you know, they have the Pre-Cana classes, but a lot of it doesn't necessarily talk about money. Right. It talks about some of the other, uh, values and goals that you might share, but. Uh, it, again, it varies church to church and even, uh, by diocese. So I don't think there's a lot of financial literacy out there for newlyweds or soon to be newlyweds.

And I know there are some good organizations, uh, compass Catholic is one of them that's really trying to create more financial literacy. I'm not sure if they have specific resources for newlyweds, but yeah. Um, there's, there's definitely, um, a movement to get more financial literacy specific to Catholics out there.

And, um, you know, we're excited to, to, um, potentially partner with them. And then, um, here at Catholic financial advisors network, we're here to be resources for those families that want one-on-one consultations and, [00:25:00] um, yeah. Better understanding some of the pathways once you've been married for a while and are working towards some joint financial goals to, to figure out what those goals are and help get you there.

Tyler Hackenberg: Yeah, absolutely.

Deb Meyer: All right. Well, thank you. This is a great episode and, uh, join us next month. We'll be talking about a new topic on the intersection of, uh, Catholicism and money.